Ziva David #11: I Feel Like a Donkey's Butt

[Sean'sGirl]

Sept 5, 2009 10:58:35 GMT -5 Phil said:

Sept 5, 2009 10:51:56 GMT -5 dijas said:

The only conclusion I got from your post ist that Ziva's human too and not some killer without emotions.

And you're welcome to that conclusion. Just remember that there is a segment of the fanbase who are not impressed with the ... inconsistent characterization of Ziva and are frustrated at how the so-called cool, professional and highly trained Mossad assassin/spy is more often than not written as a teenager instead.

She said that she didn't know weather she loved him or not. And we all saw Rivkin. He could charm just about anyone.

Well obviously, we watched a different show, because the Rivkin I saw in three episodes was a callous drunk with a smug smile and not a lick of charisma in him. I couldn't buy him charming his way out of a wet paper bag.

I agree on one thing. We saw way too little of her skills. Maybe we get to see some more in S7.

Frankly, I'd like to see less of that and a return to dead petty officers and Marines. NCIS is a procedural with a military flair, not a spy show like they seem to be trying to turn it into.

[Sean'sGirl]

Sept 5, 2009 11:35:00 GMT -5 woodcat said:

Sept 5, 2009 5:22:36 GMT -5 want2believe said:

I just dont understand why people are saying she's a badly written character just because of 4 episodes, girlinabox17

I'm not saying that she was badly written in just 4 episodes, I'm saying that she has been inconsistently written for 4 years.

[Sean'sGirl]

Sept 5, 2009 21:38:44 GMT -5 J0sieFB said:

Sept 5, 2009 10:16:20 GMT -5 Phil said:

New poster here and I had to chime in.

There's no comparison here. Tony was on a sanctioned and official mission given to him by the director and, based on Ziva’s conversations with her father in “Aliyah,” she was involved with Rivkin of her own free will. Tony had orders to be with Benoit. Ziva had no such instructions to be with Michael. Jeanne was an innocent; Rivkin was a murderer. Tony stopped snooping in her private life once he learned she was involved with Rivkin (“Nine Lives”); Ziva continued to pry. There is no moral equivalence here. None. If anything, Ziva is the Jeanne Benoit in her relationship with Rivkin who is played for intelligence through sex or emotional validation. And they failed at every opportunity to make her ... relationship with Rivkin seem like anything more than a long-distance booty call, so it's really hard to buy that she may have been in love with him (and if she was, then she's even more fickle since she was not only implying to Tony only months earlier that she thought he was her soulmate, but she was also virtually throwing herself at DiNozzo while ostensibly involved with Rivkin.)

And Tony's actions in season 4 did not result in a dead American law enforcement officer like Ziva's did. We know Rivkin killed that ICE agent and as Hadar told her in 'Aliyah,' if she had done her job and had Rivkin extracted the moment she realized he was screwed up (at the very latest, the end of 'Legend 2'), then that would not have happened.

I tend to side with woodcat here: the only thing consistent regarding Ziva's characterization since season 4 has been how inconsistent she's been written.

I get that some people may think that there some fans abandoning Ziva when things get rough, but there are some of us who have been growing steadily dissatisfied with how she's been written for a while now. They've hyped her as some sort of super spy and we honestly haven't seen much sign of that in a long time, especially in these final four episodes where the woman who can ostensibly detect lies and all that was thoroughly played by another man who was close to her (emotionally) and then after all the stupidity she pulled, she had the abject gall to accuse DiNozzo of being the bad guy. It doesn't exactly help that, for a woman trained to use sex against people, she's been written like a prepubescent teenager in the throes of her first real OMG! crush when it comes to Tony.

As to the argument that we 'don't know everything,' that's because the writing in this plot has been pure Fail. It's one thing to keep things close to the vest and reveal reasons at appropriate times, but when your characters suddenly start acting wildly OOC and you fail to even provide a believable or realistic explanation why (ala Tony's inane actions in "Knockout"), then its a fait accompli that certain fans are going to get frustrated.

Since SB took over as producer, that's how this show has gone. There is an underlying arc and we will never know everything. Pauley and Cote have already said everything that happened in S6 will not be resolved quicky in S7. Some things will and some things won't. I am fairly certain that we are going to find out that Ziva has been working undercover for Vance or Vance and her father for all of S6. It's going to be very similar to Tony's undercover mission. I don't mean the mission will be similar, but the secrets she has kept and the affect on her will be similar. Ziva was more and more uncomfortable during S6 as time went on. She did not like what she was doing nor did she like withholding information about it.

From my perspective, Ziva backed off of Tony once she figured out that Tony was in a relationship with Jeanne. Watch her conversation with Tony in the episode In the Dark after Tony talks to Jeanne about moving in together. Ziva is hardly an obsessed, nosy woman.

I don't feel that Ziva has been written inconsistently any more than Tony has. Tony has progressed from frat boy to a man who is more mature in both his job and his personal life. He still reverts now and then to old Tony, but much less often. Does that make him inconsistent? Ziva was an international undercover agent and assassin who didn't know much about friendship and family. It's been a struggle for her because she is changing, becoming more Americanized and feels closer to these people than she has been to anyone except her immediate family. She's not sure if she should fight the changes or not. The undercover op in S6 has her conflicted. She's tired of pretending. She wishes she could confide in someone, but she's been ordered not to. And I don't see Ziva with a school girl crush on Tony. Cote's comments about the character lead us to believe that early on Ziva didn't know how to take Tony and the "dumb" facade he shows most of the time. But as time has passed, she sees through that facade. They understand each other very well, but keep the barriers up because that's what they've always done to protect their hearts.

Of course all of this is just my opinion, but I am confident Ziva will be redeemed in S7. SB loves to play with our emotions and trust, but he said on the S6 DVDs that he didn't think anybody would believe that any of the main cast members were traitors. That's why he chose Michelle Lee as the mole. Given Cote's popularity with a large number of the fandom, I believe that all will be explained eventually.

[Sean'sGirl]

Sept 5, 2009 22:15:31 GMT -5 navyresgirl said:

WOW! Outstanding post Josie.

[Sean'sGirl]

Sept 5, 2009 22:30:51 GMT -5 Mikki said:

That is outstanding indeed. ^^

[Sean'sGirl]

Sept 6, 2009 14:03:25 GMT -5 girlinabox17 said:

I agree, and very clear post!

I hope some of the answers are revealed in this first episode.

[Sean'sGirl]

Sept 6, 2009 15:51:14 GMT -5 dijas said:

I agree

[Sean'sGirl]

Sept 6, 2009 16:09:35 GMT -5 J0sieFB said:

Thanks for the accolades everyone. I bet my college English Lit teacher (way back in the dark ages) wished I had studied the characters and stories she presented as much as I study NCIS. I really do love these characters, warts and all!

[Sean'sGirl]

Sept 6, 2009 16:19:39 GMT -5 erikadilante said:

Thanks J0sieFB I totally agree with you.

[cassie]

does anyone know where there are pics of cote from the new season

[stella]

There are still no pictures of her.

[Tim]

There's a poll-kind-of-thing on the tv.com website for the TV.com Awards.

Ziva's nominated as Best Knight in Shining Armor.

She's currently leading by 71%. But with that competition I'm surprised she hasn't got more votes

Check it out here. I don't really know if it's a real award but it looks interesting.

[Mikki]

Only one more week until Season 7.

[FateLove]

Sept 6, 2009 16:17:16 GMT -5 dijas said:

www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20300978_20302752_28,00.html

You can vote for Cote EWwy for Best Supporting Actress in a Drama

Thanks did vote and left a comment.

[Nici]